Curse

I Is Special · Jun 26, 2007, 12:17 PM // 12:17

Its there, imo. I have definatly noticed a diffrence in drops if i kill monsters 1 by 1, instead of 20 at the same exact moment.

Miral · Jun 26, 2007, 12:24 PM // 12:24

sure its not just a matter of the 20 you kill at once being super weak and having lowered drops for that reason?

bad person · Jun 26, 2007, 01:03 PM // 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

Now for preseering you have a near 98% chance since its a maximum size group of 2.

You know, I just have to ask...

Is this just what you think (or calculated, whatever), or have you actually put this into practice? The reason I ask is because I farm Pre-Searing a lot. I use the bandits from the Bandit Raid and Protection Prayers quests as my mobs and I can tell you, without a doubt, that the drop rate per bandit is nowhere near the 98% you stated. I haven't recorded how many drops I receive, but rarely do I get 5 and I actually get none more often than that. I'd say my average is between 2 and 3 (but closer to 3) drops per run (8 bandits).

To give you an idea of how much I farm, I recently merchanted a set of 1000 worn belts and also picked up more than 100 dyes from the recent event by farming just the bandits from the 2 quests I mentioned. So, while I don't have hard numbers, I would say I've farmed there enough to know that the 98% you gave is not a reality.

KANE OG · Jun 26, 2007, 01:16 PM // 13:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

uhh never heard of that one there, Kinn...

It is very true. It comes up in many threads in the Farming Section. I've also experienced it myself.

KANE

FoxBat · Jun 26, 2007, 01:41 PM // 13:41

Loot scaling is linked to # of deaths within a short time frame. If you kill slowly enough, you won't be affected by it at all. That makes giving an exact percentage for all farms everywhere impossible.

Alas Poor Yorick · Jun 26, 2007, 02:02 PM // 14:02

Ok - while math is a good thing, it is only as good as the assumptions that go into it.

You are making the assumption that ANet begins with 100% drop for any area and that the drop rate is then scaled according to party size with a drop rate for a solo party in an 8 man area being about 1/4 that of the drop rate for a party of 8 (based on ANet's statement that a solo player should get about twice times the drops he/she would have received in a part of 8).

The assumption you are making is that the same reduction in drop rate would apply in all areas - so that a party of 1 in pre-searing would have the same drop rate as a party of 7 in an 8 man area - but, since the single player gets all the drops and adding in exempt items, that would come out to about 98%

However, math is only as good as the assumption and the problem with your figures is that your assumption was incorrect. I have already noted that under loot scaling the experienced solo drop rate was about 3 in 5 for pre-searing. that is about 66%. That indicates that ANet was not using the same reduction per person in lower party areas they were using in 8 player areas.

Secondly, it is always a good idea to test your hypotheses. As I pointed out, drop rate has been 100% (after the first 5-8 kills) for Sunqua Vale, Saoshang trail, Panjiang Peninsula (all 4 man areas). According to your figures that should have been a 56% rate. To see if this held true for other areas I tried Haiju Lagoon. I died fighting a large group of Kappas but had killed 79 beasts (after excluding the first 5 kills) with a 100% drop rate. According to your figures I should only have received 32 drops instead of the 79 I actually received.

Again - significant experience of the last several days seems to indicate loot scaling is no longer in effect for low level areas in normal mode.

Alas Poor Yorick · Jun 26, 2007, 02:06 PM // 14:06

Bad - you might want to run your bandits again - however kill about 5 things before you hit the bandits and see what your drop rate is - it would appear loot scaling has significantly changed or been removed in pre.

Fox- I have never heard of loot scaling being linked to # of deaths in a time frame but over the last few days I have not been killing any more slowly than normal yet have received 100% drop rate after the first 5-8 kills in every low level area I have tried.

Spazzer · Jun 26, 2007, 02:18 PM // 14:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

I believe the words you are looking for are: "Advanced solo farmers may now earn about twice as much gold and common loot from farming solo as they would if they farmed in a party." Also: "The loot scaling for gold and common loot is not linear with the number of players in the party, and it includes an element of randomness..."

Key words bolded.

Now, I ask again, where are you getting your percentages?

It's pretty obvious that quote means less than double unless you get lucky. I think he's giving us the benefit of the doubt.

hallomik · Jun 26, 2007, 02:56 PM // 14:56

Here's the actual math for those interested.

Solving for L (Percent of total Loot drops a solo farmer gets:

X = % of drops free from scaling represented as a decimal between 0 and 1. That is, percent of drops that are golds, scrolls, rare matl's, etc.

X equal to 0 means everything scaled (What Anet initially implemented as loot scaling). X=1 means everything exempt from scaling (The old system).

P = Party Size (2, 4, 6, 8)

(does a little algebra…)

If you're soloing, the % of drops you are expected to get (L):

L = (1/P)*(1-X)+X

If you want to represent X as a number between 1 and 100, the formula is (1/P)*(100-X)+X

See attached chart which implies that X is roughly .15 (15%) if the exemption doubles your quantity of loot by soloing an 8 man group.

Loviatar · Jun 26, 2007, 03:57 PM // 15:57

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Wasn't the old official word on the street that buyable character slots won't happen since its impossible to implement them?

WRONG

since i have several accounts this was of great interest to me.

*THEY SAID*

we are not able to implement extra slots AT THIS TIME BUT WE ARE WORKING ON IT

no mention of impossible to do

Quote:

You sure you want to believe EVERYTHING they serve you without any proof - or especially if the data provided by the community is contradicting that?

considering the tiny sample size any figures stated here are completely meaningless

and as much as i disagree with the OP on virtually everything else i have to say his figures will probably end up pretty close to the overall game logs averages which average all drops for all players over an extended period of time

Vagrant · Jun 26, 2007, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etta

You want the truth? You can't handle the truth!!!
My drop rates are not that much different between solo and grouping, solo still give me as much drop as before.

And that's essentially the way drop rates are supposed to work. You get the same amount of loot everywhere.

Which is why you find so many hard mode solo farmers, because they're farming for the golds, greens, and dyes that are much easier to obtain in hard mode, because they aren't scaled to party size.

Levi Garett · Jun 26, 2007, 04:05 PM // 16:05

You guys should just take his word for it since Manitoba is the self proclaimed founder of 55HP monking...

youngstar · Jun 26, 2007, 04:19 PM // 16:19

Who would sticky such a thread? I love your completely made up 'facts' about loot scaling.

First of all, the drops "scale according to party size". This means that they are the exact same no matter how many people you have in your party.

How did you get these percentages? You have no work, not a single thing to prove your theory correct. Party size has nothing to do with loot scaling anymore, it was stated in the updates. I like how you say that you have a 98% drop rate in pre-searing because of the party size. It has been noted that pre-searing has become exempt from loot scaling.

Please, prove me wrong, although I doubt you can.

Gimme Money Plzkthx · Jun 26, 2007, 04:24 PM // 16:24

This looks like a load of BS to me. No one can calculate all the percentages and stuff except anet, and I wouldn't believe anything they told me anyway...

Razz Thom · Jun 26, 2007, 05:16 PM // 17:16

as far as the "anti-nuker" code, if that is true then it makes Dervish completely worthless. Very, very often i drop three or more enemies in one swing and i still get decent drops.

Razz Thom · Jun 26, 2007, 05:26 PM // 17:26

as far as the "anti-nuker" code, if that is true then it makes Dervish completely worthless. Very, very often i drop three or more enemies in one swing and i still get decent drops.

Loviatar · Jun 26, 2007, 07:02 PM // 19:02

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngstar

Who would sticky such a thread? I love your completely made up 'facts' about loot scaling.

First of all, the drops "scale according to party size". This means that they are the exact same no matter how many people you have in your party.
Please, prove me wrong, although I doubt you can.

a pleasure and i will even give you the dev page linkie

Quote:

Without loot scaling, solo farmers received every loot drop, whereas people who played in a party received only a fraction of loot drops. Thus, solo farmers received up to eight times as much loot for killing the same group of monsters. With loot scaling in place, solo farmers still get more loot than people who play in parties, but the gap is less severe than it was before.

notice the little bolded part that proves it is not directly scaled?

top quote go down until you see........

Quote:

How does loot scaling work?

and there it is

less difference not 1/1 scaled difference

as the devs ave stated many times

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10148600

manitoba1073 · Jul 07, 2007, 09:05 PM // 21:05

No the reason im not wrong is very very very simple. Anerf has givin us the only thing we need to know of loot scaling, ITS BASED ON PARTY SIZE and NOTHING ELSE. You can do the math yourself if you want, but in an 8 man area in a full group the chance for each and every player to get the drop is roughly 12.5%. Because no matter what you want to think 8 of 8 is 100% and 1 of 8 is 12.5. Now a solo person will get roughly twice as much. And you can do the same maths for the smaller group areas.

Alas Poor Yorick · Jul 07, 2007, 10:12 PM // 22:12

But it is not based on party size anymore

No matter where I go, if I solo and kill things one at a time I get a drop from EVERY SINGLE KILL except the first few in an area (used to be 5-8 but the last update raised that to about 12) In three weeks of killing thousands of mobs there have been only 2 exceptions to this (and one of them may have been a miscount on my part). I have killed in ALL areas of Shing Jea, presearing, and several areas around old Ascalon and Istan. Maximum Party size varies in those areas from 2 to 6. Yet there has been NO variation of the drop rate.

Small H&H parties in areas that can accommodate 8 person teams have yielded the expected rate from BEFORE loot scaling. Far higher than the rate I was getting with loot scaling in place.

However, solo farming with AoE style and killing several at one time has resulted in a 1 drop in 4 rate - vastly different than the solo rate Melee style.

You math does not work because you are assuming that ANet has not changed the rules.

Experience says they have.

manitoba1073 · Jul 08, 2007, 12:19 AM // 00:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alas Poor Yorick

But it is not based on party size anymore

No matter where I go, if I solo and kill things one at a time I get a drop from EVERY SINGLE KILL except the first few in an area (used to be 5-8 but the last update raised that to about 12) In three weeks of killing thousands of mobs there have been only 2 exceptions to this (and one of them may have been a miscount on my part). I have killed in ALL areas of Shing Jea, presearing, and several areas around old Ascalon and Istan. Maximum Party size varies in those areas from 2 to 6. Yet there has been NO variation of the drop rate.

Small H&H parties in areas that can accommodate 8 person teams have yielded the expected rate from BEFORE loot scaling. Far higher than the rate I was getting with loot scaling in place.

However, solo farming with AoE style and killing several at one time has resulted in a 1 drop in 4 rate - vastly different than the solo rate Melee style.

You math does not work because you are assuming that ANet has not changed the rules.

Experience says they have.

And you are basing them that Anet has changed the rules. However Anerf hasnt said they have.

Now as Ive said it is still based on party size only. You have just been lucky is all. Plain and simple truth. Still dont believe in that you are being lucky, flip a quarter 10 times count the results. However the chance to get Heads will remain the same 50% no matter what the results are.

Now as far as the AoE killing at same time IT IS A BUG, its more of a proximity bug than a timed kill bug. And for not getting stuff outa the first 12 or so heres a little help. Wait 1 minute before you start killing things, and you will get drops from them also.